KAY BURLEY: Let me ask you straight off the bat: What level of harassment by the security services here in the United Kingdom justifies beheadings?
CERIE BULLIVANT: It’s not about justifying anything. Nobody here is apologizing or trying to make an excuse for what happened. We’re talking about the causes of it. For years now in the British discourse on this issue, we’ve failed to look at the causes of radicalization in an honest manner. The conveyor belt theory that’s been pushed time and time again has been proven, academically speaking, incorrect. It has no empirical evidence, yet every single time one of these horrific attacks happens, the people who perpetrate it quote foreign policy as the key pusher. They quote harassment in domestic policy as factors. And we keep ignoring that, and it’s not about justifying it, it’s about looking at the causes of it so that we can make everybody safer here and abroad.
KAY BURLEY: How do you feel about the beheading.
CERIE BULLIVANT: I, I’m—to be frank, I’m appalled that you would ask me that question. Muslims are human beings as well—
KAY BURLEY: Don’t be, don’t be appalled. Just answer the question if you would please, sir.
CERIE BULLIVANT: I, I am. Muslims are human beings as well. We are shocked when we see beheadings, we are shocked when we see barrel bombs. We shouldn’t have to justify our humanity by saying that I am shocked by something as brutal as this. I campaigned both publicly and behind the scenes for the release of Alan Henning, so your question is inherently Islamophopic and racist.
KAY BURLEY: Nonsense! Get over yourself. Who’s responsible for these beheadings?
CERIE BULLIVANT: The man who cut off their heads, and, if you take that back a step, the people who potentially helped in his radicalization—in this case, the security services.
KAY BURLEY: So you feel that the security services here in the United Kingdom are in some way or in some part responsible for the beheadings now being carried out by Jihadi John and others?
CERIE BULLIVANT: Everybody has agency for their own actions, and everybody, regardless of where they are and who they are, should be held accountable by the law, by due process, for any sort of torture that they do and any sort of killings without due process that they take. That is a blanket statement for all people in all times.
KAY BURLEY: So are you saying that the security services are in some way responsible for these beheadings, was my question.
CERIE BULLIVANT: What I said is that we have to look at all of the history of all these things as well. If you try and take these issues in a vacuum, then you’re not going to be able to analyze how they happened and try to get to some sort of understanding of how to stop them happening again.
KAY BURLEY: Okay, so do you feel that in some way the security services are in some way from the United Kingdom are responsible for the beheadings carried out by Jihadi John?
CERIE BULLIVANT: I feel—I’ll give you the answer that you’ve asked me three times, I feel that the security services have, time and again, harassed people and pushed them and that has played a part in the radicalization of this man. Now he is responsible for his own actions; they are partly responsible for putting him in that position.
KAY BURLEY: Do you condemn his actions?
CERIE BULLIVANT: I’ve already said— I’m sorry, I’m not answering that question. It’s a ridiculous question. I’ve already gone through this, and dealt with it.
Removes earpiece, and exits stage left. Cut to Kay Burley in studio, silent, smirking…..
KAY BURLEY: [chirpily] Joining us now from Central London is Shiraz M—
For those who can stomach, the video can be seen here